Points of Information
In this issue:
- Welcome to the Talking Saints Newsletter
- Forensics adapts its mission to COVID
- Talking Saints to Japan
- New Saints to Calgary
- New York Nationals
- New freshmen take on a new world
- Meet the new team members
Up next for the Talking Saints:
- Doxbridge in London: November 6-9 (Upperclassmen only)
- Linfield in McMinnville, Oregon: November 13-14
Times have changed:
- Team: 16 women, 7 men
- Frosh: 7 women, 2 men
- Coaches: 2 women, 1 man
Welcome to the Talking Saints newsletter, The Talk of Saints–not for competition, but for life
Whenever I need a name, I consult a secret source, one who smokes too much and who almost joined the military after high school: Mark Porrovecchio! He named the Talking Saints! This time he suggested The Talk of the Saints! Mark is a dear friend, teaching and coaching at Oregon State, passing along his Karma to a new generation. Don't shudder! He's a wonderful, gentle, if tattooed, mentor.
In a stressful time when keeping connected is challenging, we'd like to keep in closer contact with the Talking Saints family – team alums, Carroll alums, friends and supporters. We have friends from other colleges in the Northwest, the Rocky Mountain region as well as in Canada and overseas. We value our connections with everyone in the wider family.
Even faculty and staff who see us every day, don't always know what we're up to. This is for them, too.
The newsletter is a thank you card to those who care about us. We're grateful for your interest in our program, and wish to say so.
We'll have news about the team, and we'll include snapshots of former team members. During their Carroll years, many asked, "What will I do with my life?" These snapshots will showcase their answers.
As you can imagine, former team members are doing everything you could imagine, from the predictable law and academic careers to work as nurses and doctors. Many are serving their communities in a variety of generous ways. You can find one in a monastery in Oregon.
For this first issue, we're going to update you on how we're adjusting to COVID times. We'll provide some reports on our online venture into international debate – an opportunity we value, while regretting how much we lose when Zoom replaces in-person gatherings.
We'll also introduce the new team members and tell you of their promising start at their first two debate outings.
For those asking that inevitable, indelicate question: "Is he really still coaching? Does he still drive in those slippers?" Yes. Sometimes. Year 32, age 74. Why am I still teaching and coaching? Well, because I love my students. They are family. And it helps me forget previous generations. (Just kidding...I love you all.)
On a personal note, since I lost my wife Sue in 2018, I value my connection to students even more.
Welcome to our The Talk of the Saints newsletter, only three decades and one millennium late. Rounds never start on time, why should the newsletter?
Spread the news. Let's reunite the Talking Saints family.
Love to you all!
Brent & The Talking Saint
October 2020
Forensics adapts its mission for COVID times
Spring 2020 was a bummer, a truly depressing time in the world and at Carroll.
Carroll students returned from Spring Break in March and, within a week, were transitioned to totally online education to help flatten the curve. Faculty had virtually no warning, but did their best to deliver the education each student deserves.
The Talking Saints were in the midst of practicing for both speech nationals and debate nationals when COVID arrived. We kept practicing, but everyone sensed what was coming.
Both nationals were canceled. All travel was suspended.
Students were stressed, focusing on passing classes that had changed from in person to Zoom. That took a lot of energy. Neither students nor faculty were at their best, but all survived.
Initially, the campus talked about returning to normal "after Easter." Nope. Surely by fall? Nope.
Carroll reopened "live" in the fall, and has done its best to offer a normal semester in abnormal times. Some classes are live, some are remote, some are hybrid.
What about forensics, curious readers wonder.
Practically all forensics tournaments, nationwide, have gone virtual. Teams are not traveling. Tournaments are not being held on the host campus, but rather on the MacBook of the host coach – or farmed out to a tech god, somewhere.
Universities have either cancelled their Spring 2021 tournaments or moved online. One by one, national tournaments are committing to an online format for Spring 2021.
Slowly, the new world of forensics has started evolving. And that world is virtual. Virtual debate. Virtual prose. Virtual extemp.
Complicating the return of forensics is stress on virtually every level – students, coaches, faculty, administration. The health of colleges is being threatened by enrollment shortages. Nationally, budget cuts sometimes remove professors, coaches and programs. That uncertainty hovers over the heads of all faculty and staff, in all departments – and all teams.
Students are doing a marvelous job of keeping focused in hard times, but at a price. Students talk of the semester being harder, more tiring – partly because many classes deliver knowledge virtually, but partly because of the stress that hovers over their lives.
A Time to Worry
The story of how the Talking Saints are adapting to this in a moment, but first a brief acknowledgement of the elephant in college living rooms: testing, waiting, worrying.
At first, we figured COVID was about getting sick or not getting sick.
But the reality is different.
COVID is about worrying.
I call it "worry once removed, twice removed, or thrice removed." Students who never test positive, never suffer a single symptom, are often worried and stressed.
Here's why: If a person tests positive, contact tracing informs that person's close contacts. Then that "worried friend" often gets tested and quarantines while waiting for test results. This is worry, once removed.
Their education becomes virtual, even though they are healthy. They adapt as best they can to online courses, but they are worried as they await results. Most times, the result is negative. Whew! But life has been seriously compromised, even without catching the virus.
"Worry twice removed" is when someone who knows the "worried friend" decides to take steps just in case that "healthy friend" comes back positive.
So, chains of worry exist in COVID times. Most of these incidents end with negative test results from the first and second level contacts. But lives have been disrupted, nonetheless. The stress is palpable and disrupts concentration on academic assignments.
The Talking Saints had two students in quarantine in September who went to dinner with a non-team member who, the next day, tested positive. So, they lived in a house near campus. They tested negative, but still spent two weeks with laptop classes.
Another team member had athletes as her roommates. A positive test on that team, raised stress among other players – and, thus, for our team member. She notified our team that she was worried, but all ladies tested negative. Two weeks ago, another team member learned his roommate in the dorm was positive. He was tested and went into quarantine. He, too, tested negative.
And so, it goes.
Faculty receive regular emails and texts from students in various loops of the worry chain. Occasionally, a student says they are positive, and are in isolation. More often a student says they are "a contact of a positive" or, frequently, "a contact of a contact who is positive."
All of us in the community are bonding to help each other.
That's the complex background needed to understand how forensics has adapted.
Responding to the Times
The Talking Saints have prioritized the mental health above all else.
Instead of crafting a typical year of full-throttle training in multiple events (we are an all-events team training across multiple genres), the team sat down together at "bootcamp" and mapped out a strategy for the COVID year.
Bootcamp, held one week before classes began, was exclusively outdoors, because indoor practices carried higher risk, especially to coaches. The masked team literally sat under the trees, in an area we call St. Al's forest - and crafted a plan together. Lawn chairs from Walmart helped make Bootcamp more comfortable.
What emerged was a plan the team affectionately called, "Choose Your Own Adventure." The goal was to design a year they would enjoy, while decreasing the total commitment so that they could adapt to an uncertain academic year.
The team's hardcore debaters chose to blend Northwest tournaments, national debate tournaments and international outings. They were very excited at the prospect of traveling virtually to New York, Toronto, London, Sumatra, Tokyo and Cape Town. Many outings would feature one team only, but all teams would "travel."
Debating online is closer to normal that performing with a black book online – with no audience.
he actors/interpers were not enthused about virtual acting competitions – standing alone in an empty class with their black books. Instead, most of them opted for community service, where they could use their skills to brighten the lives of grade school kids.
That "Kids' Lit" project is underway, as the team rehearses a children's book in preparation for performing it for a Montessori class in the weeks ahead. The first selection will be "The Day I Swapped My Dad for Two Goldfish." The team has choreographed the story as a reader's theater, with a narrator and an array of supporting actors. We'll be performing outside, during lunch – with our narrator reading from the original book, and the supporting cast using their black binders.
We'll be performing outside, during lunch – with our narrator reading from the original book, and the supporting cast using their black binders. Just this weekend, to be safe, we ran a practice outside – in the snow! Why not! It's Montana. Bring a parka. ("Maybe he should retire," thought the alums, as they read this newsletter.)
Only COVID can stop this, a nervous possibility.
Our interpers are excited to use their skills to delight school children. The Montessori class is taught by Jodi Majerus Delaney. Former Talking Saints member Brett Clark's son Aeden is in the class. Dean Peterson, son of former team members Scott Peterson and Annie Heffelfinger, is also in Jodi's class.
Competitive speech and drama is slowing down this season. Total time commitment to forensics has been reduced. A few kids still want to compete in individual speech and drama events at tournaments, and they will.
The Talking Saints of 2020 are as novel as the coronavirus – international debate, kids' lit for grade schoolers and a few speech events.
With those choices in place, the team became highly motivated to enter the COVID season.
International competition started by entering Josh Mansfield and Hellie Badaruddin in a Tokyo, Japan, tournament - which ran from 7 p.m. to 7 a.m., Montana time, Friday and Saturday night. Josh and Hellie won quarters, won semi-finals and advanced to the championship round. Many team members stayed up and Zoomed in to watch the final round. We all thought Hellie and Josh had won the event, but on a split decision, an Australian team won, from the University of Melbourne..
Debaters are enjoying meeting teams from abroad.
"I loved hearing a Russian team talk about the monopoly in the music industry, and hearing the Scots offer a fun take on their national identity," said junior Eleanor Ferrone of Nebraska, after competing online in a London tournament. "It's nice to know our problems and perspectives aren't the only ones."
The actors and actresses on the team – interpers, in forensics lingo - are looking forward to making fourth graders laugh.
Most of all, the students are enjoying the year, and can easily adapt to academic surprises.
"Choose Your Own Adventure" allows the team to remain excited, while having a smaller total time commitment so they can protect their academic priorities.
We don't know what the year will bring. Cases in Montana and on campus are increasing as this first newsletter is released.
But the Talking Saints are still the Talking Saints. The new students, profiled later in this newsletter, are top students with talent. Our values still emphasize service and sportsmanship. The newcomers are learning impromptu, extemp, debate – and are part of the Kids' Lit theatre troupe.
As always, the Talking Saints team is still aiming for success, although this year some of those victories may be cheers from fourth graders.
The Talking Saints take Tokyo 
The Talking Saints opened their virtual year in forensics by winning three awards in an international tournament in Japan on Aug. 14-16. Senior Josh Mansfield from Pocatello, Idaho, and Hellie Badaruddin a sophomore from Missoula, reached the championship round. An Australian team from the University of Melbourne won the tournament. Both Josh and Hellie won speaker awards, with Badaruddin 9th and Mansfield 4th.
The field of teams included teams from throughout East Asia including South Korea, Hong Kong, Australia and host Japan. With a 15-hour time difference, Carroll started debating on Friday night at 6 p.m. and continued until 7 a.m. Saturday. Then wash, rinse, repeat for Saturday night. The Feminism Open was hosted by Japanese universities and all entry fees were donated to non-profits fighting to increase rights of women in Asia.
The Talking Saints competed through the night on Friday and Saturday, on their laptops from Mansfield's living room. Many team members stayed up to cheer their teammates online.
"It was a lot of fun and an incredible learning experience to debate styles that are so different from our own," said Mansfield. "Virtual debate made it feel like a fun Saturday night hanging out with Hellie and felt a lot less stressful."
The Saints had no idea what to expect. COVID has closed down debate travel, but online opportunities are exploding around the world.
"I didn't really know what to expect going into it," said Badaruddin."One of my biggest concerns was that they wouldn't be able to understand our American accents. But it definitely went better than I expected. All of the topics we debated were really interesting and the judging was easily some of the best we've ever had. I think what really made it a great experience was that we were really well matched. The level of competition was high throughout the tournament and we never saw a team that we thought was significantly worse than us or one that had obviously beat us."
Despite the virtual setting, Josh and Hellie made friends with their Asian opponents.
"It was relaxed e ough that we were able to make friends with some of the other teams and we actually contacted Kelly and Henry from Korea and are hoping to do some virtual practices with them this season," said Badaruddin. "Despite never actually meeting them, we still felt that we made friends and built relationships. Overall, it was totally worth the amount of sleep I missed and I can't wait to do it again."
The virtual outing was an experiment in a year where nothing is going to be normal.
"Forensics, like college sports, has been disrupted and turned upside down by COVID," said coach Brent Northup, starting year 32. "Students are stressed on so many levels, that we're setting out to tailor the year to try to brighten their spirits. We especially want make the year as special for our wonderful first-year students as we can. The high school class of 2020 drew the virtual short straw this millennium. We owe 'em."
Towards that end, the Talking Saints are thinking outside the box – and the country.
"International debate is one possibility, and we are working with a local grade school teacher – a former Talking Saint - to see if we can perform some essays written by those young people to celebrate young writers during their tough year," said Northup. "We're also exploring a YouTube show, perhaps "Bedtime Stories with the Talking Saints," for local kids. It feels like a year to put exploration and service above competition. We Zoomed over to Japan to explore possibilities and make new friends, not to win. So, we were surprised – stunned, really - that we did so well. But we're OK with that, too. Going to bed at dawn was my only complaint."
New Talking Saints off to a fast start
The eight newest members of the Talking Saints entered two novice tournaments reserved for first year students, and all eight Carroll students won awards, including top speaker. All four first year teams advanced to championship rounds at least once, and they added six top-10 speaker awards – with three more Talking Saints next door in 11th.
"Some of these newcomers started from zero, with no prior experience and to see them already starting to excel was so encouraging," said coach Brent Northup. "But they are also quite competitive. I think they may have classified their results as a B+, and that's a grade that truly annoys A students. Their journey is just beginning. Color me optimistic."
At the Teaching Tournament on Sept. 18-20, hosted virtually by Carroll, Elaina Goulet of East Wenatchee and Josie Howlett of Bigfork, Montana, reached debate finals in a competitive field that attracted 36 teams from eight states, including entries from the University of Mississippi and the Air Force Academy in Colorado.
Ally Haegele of Helena won top speaker, with Goulet third, Howlett fifth, and Matt Glimm of Kalispell seventh. One spot away, in 11th, were Melissa Jagelski of Ontario, Oregon and her partner Elissa Mazkour of Beirut, Lebanon.
At the University of Calgary Virtual Fall Open on Oct. 3-4, three Carroll teams reached the semi-finals, including Glimm and Haegele, Jagelski and Mazkour, plus Finlay Bates of Forest Grove, Oregon, and Sarah Osmon of Ontario, Oregon. Glimm was named fifth best speaker, and Bates was ninth, with Haegele next in 11th.
"Competing against teams from throughout Western Canada was a great experience," said Northup. "Three of the eight teams in the semis were from Carroll, which prompted one of the Calgary hosts to say that ‘your kids really killed it this weekend.' "
Both tournaments were conducted virtually on different software platforms. The Carroll teams each were stationed alone in a Carroll classroom, with COVID precautions. Between rounds the team would gather outside under the St. Al's trees, to enjoy box lunches from the STAC. At day's end, the group chose their reward: Dairy Queen ice cream cones.
"Both tournaments brought my partner Melissa and I closer," said Mazkour. "We began to complete one another. A great experience, even despite not making finals."
Finlay Bates, who traveled to Calgary while sitting in Simperman Hall, agreed.
"Debating in an international tournament from a familiar place allowed me to grow from a place of comfort," he said. "And it allowed me to connect with people away from Carroll which is hard in times like these."
Saints compete virtually at "make-up" nationals
While Carroll's first-year students competed virtual novice events, the upper class teams headed virtually up to Hobart and William Smith Colleges in Geneva, New York, on Oct. 3-4. The event was christened "make-up Nationals," a huge event designed to soften the canceling of nationals last spring. More than 220 teams entered, although last year's graduating seniors could not attend, of course.
Talking Saint senior Josh Mansfield of Pocatello, Idaho, and his partner sophomore Hellie Badaruddin of Missoula, finished tied for the 32nd and final spot to advance to the championship octa-final rounds, but narrowly lost out on speaker points.
"That was a fine showing in deep field that had the best teams in the country present – Harvard, Stanford, John Hopkins, Berkeley, Cornell, Amherst, Princeton, the University of Chicago and the rest," said coach Brent Northup. "Josh and Hellie are just getting in synch, and improving every week. When virtual spring Nationals comes around in April, they will be primed and eager and very ready, I'm sure."
Mansfield says the judges pointed the way up. BP debate features four teams in each round, and rounds in the "bottom half" proved more challenging.
"We've got to be more aggressive when we're debating in the bottom half in the round," said Mansfield. "It's crucial to do more direct comparison of our contribution to the early speeches and weigh our impacts against theirs. All the judges said that's where we lost close decisions. I've got to get stronger in my final whip speeches."
Carroll assistant coach Becca Poliquin was chosen as one of the elite final round judges, a significant honor.
The tournament was virtual, as are all debate tournaments this COVID season.
Four Carroll teams competed at the New York tournament, and all did well, but did not advance. Joining Badaruddin and Mansfield, were sophomores Roisin O'Neill of Lake Oswego, Oregon and her partner Vinny Gallardo of Butte; juniors Eleanor Ferrone of Hastings, Nebraska and her partner David Lange of Ferndale, Washington; senior Teigen Tremper of Whitefish, Montana, and her partner, junior Taylor Potts of Great Falls.
"The Talking Saints had 16 debaters in rooms around campus competing in New York and Calgary," said Northup. "That's just surreal, really. The teammates gathered together to have donuts outside together at 8:30 a.m. and then disappeared into separate classrooms. Sort of like groundhogs sticking their heads out into sunlight for a few minutes, then scurrying back in their holes. They might not like being called groundhogs, but somehow it fits a virtual COVID season. We'd all like to stay in the sunlight more and meet real people. Next year, please."
New Talking Saints begin the journey–in masks and online
Each year brings a new edition of The Talking Saints.
In Fall 2020 eight new masked team members joined 14 returning veterans.
Three are from Oregon, one from Washington, two from the Flathead Valley, one from Helena and one from Beirut, Lebanon.
And we have one first-year student studying online from Washington, D.C., who will join us live in January: Peay.
Forever and ever, Amen, the high school class of 2020 will be known as the unlucky ones. First, they sacrificed their senior year prom and graduation to COVID 19. Now they arrive at college wearing masks and choosing from a church buffet of online offerings, live classes and hybrids (like a Prius, only with a teacher riding shotgun).
Not a pretty year.
By all rights, these frosh should be discouraged, and perhaps even a bit bitter.
But they are not.
"College after two months has been extraordinary," says Elissa Mazkour, from Beirut, Lebanon. "You get some downs that eventually balance back up with a lot of positive energy."
The new team members are strong students, caring teammates and loaded with talent. Three of them have no prior experience in speech, drama or debate, but are learning quickly – and all three have already won both debate trophies and speaker trophies, after only two months.
One of the newcomers is a little different from the others. She's a mom with four kids – and her story is inspiring.
Ally Bushnell started at Carroll in Fall 2009, and arrived with something special in her backpack: four-month old son, Holden. Unfazed, Ally joined the team and became a very successful, well liked young speaker. After placing in all three of her events at a January tournament, she came to my office to talk. I was so excited with her potential that I gave her a prose script for the following year. She listened quietly and then told me the news.
She was pregnant with number two – and dropping out of college. She just wanted to complete her first year on the team before withdrawing. Classy. Austin, her only daughter, was born in September.
Fast forward to summer 2020. Ally writes to me to inform me she was now mother of four, and wanted to complete her dream: back to college, on to law school. She had a full time job at a Credit Union, too.
And she wanted the Talking Saints to be part of her life again. She said the team had been home to her the first time, and she wanted to return home.
I expressed disbelief that she could keep all those bowling pins in the air without being hit on the head by one or two. Ally informed me, with clear-eyed determination, that she would make it work. To clear space, she quit her job. Her husband, a Carroll grad from 2013, was her biggest cheerleader.
Ally's part of the first-year class, because she never finished that first year. Her debate partner is a pre-med major from Kalispell, Matt Glimm.
Ally is appropriately called the "team mom." She looks out for her slightly younger friends, including loading them into her SUV to seek out Dairy Queen one hungry night. She won a Carroll Bear, a stuffed animal (which is sometimes a Carroll Moose or a Carroll Giraffe) given to someone on a trip who puts others first, even in the heat of competition. Her teammates love her.
Ally reminds me a bit of Nan Lefebvre who started at Carroll with me in 1989, 12 years after graduating from Fairfield High School. She also became the team mom, and soon the team president. Nan wrote a memorable informative speech on The Big O, which I don't believe was about Oscar Robertson. Nan was an older-than-average team member also – much loved, very beautiful speaker, crisp sense of humor.
Ally meet Nan. Nan meet Ally. The circle of life. Thirty-two years apart, same indomitable spirit.
As this newsletter goes to press, Ally and Matt are competing virtually in London at a world tournament for first-year BP debaters. Tune in next newsletter for how they did. And, in about six years, I'll report on Ally's blossoming career in law, after earning her LLD and MBA.
Next letter, I'll introduce our recruit from Beirut, Elissa Mazkour. She's a lovely caring person, who's already won her own Carroll Bear – and has a tireless work ethic. She studied and debated at a private high school in Hawaii and then fell in love with Carroll, thanks in part to a friendship with Roy Simperman – whose name adorns Carroll's Simperman Hall - who lived near her school in Hawaii. Carroll had two parts of her dream: PreMed and Debate. Because of COVID she hasn't been home to see family in Beirut for a long while. Elissa is the team optimist. Come back next newsletter to hear more.
I'm sure you are eager to meet the new team members. Sure, happy to introduce you.
Let's start with a two-minute video introducing the new cohort. Click HERE to watch.
The New Members:
Ally Bushnell Haegele, Helena
Matt Glimm, Kalispell, Montana
Elissa Mazkour, Beirut, Lebanon
Melissa Jagelski, Ontario, Oregon
Finlay Bates, Forest Grove, Oregon
Sarah Osmon, Terrebonne, Oregon
Josie Howlett, Bigfork, Montana
Elaina Goulet, East Wenatchee, Washington
Aniya "Peay" Peay, Washington D.C.
Josie, learning to balance her busy life.
Voices of the new
Let's conclude the introduction of the new team members by letting a few of them tell you what it's like to start college under a COVID cloud, what they think of forensics and how their courses are going.
So how's your first year of college?
"College is an adjustment, but is going fine." Ally.
"Being in high school you always have your routine determined and you quickly find your way in terms of studying. College is another level where it depends on how much time you are willing to put to succeed in what you want to do. That definitely is not a negative thing, however it's just one more challenge added to my plate!" Elissa.
"College so far has been a roller coaster but has been very exciting. There are times where I feel very productive and working towards finishing homework and other times where I feel like I can't get out of my pile of things to do." Josie.
"College after two months is very wild, with COVID becoming more of an issue on campus. That's pushing me off of campus (and home to Oregon) to an online learning format," Finlay.
What's it like being on the team?
"Forensics is enjoyable, but I do still miss the camaraderie that occurs in travel." Ally.
"Forensics has been a lot of fun and I have learned a lot in only two months. I have grown in confidence with speaking and presenting myself and my ideas in front of others. Debate is completely new to me but I am really excited to see what the future may bring." Josie.
"I'm still excited to compete in competitions online from home and continue to win speaker awards and working towards a top 4 placement!" Finlay.
How are you handling the COVID semester?
"COVID/online stress definitely adds another layer beyond that of school in general and makes it more challenging to really get engaged, as it can be somewhat more permissive to emotionally check out when remote, but overall it is still preferable the way Carroll is doing it as opposed to fully online." Ally.
"Throughout the pandemic, it has been so stressful to keep up with my daily "normal" life. Thoughts of wanting to get to know more people cross my mind but then I remember I can't, for the sake of my and others' well-being." Elissa.
"Online school has made classes really difficult and sad because I want to engage in a classroom and with my peers and professors but that is nearly impossible online. I think the best way to get through it is to just push through and do my part." Josie.
Underview:
I'll bet you are wondering who's paired with whom? Since I once paired a team that got married, I know I have to be careful. Matchmaker, matchmaker make me a match.
- Matt & Ally
- Elaina & Josie
- Finlay & Sarah
- The Lissas: Melissa & Elissa
If you are still with me after all this, I want to hug you and thank you. Vaccine first, then the hug.
Love to all,
Brent & The Talking Saints
